Pino Sagliocco, music promoter: “I have been on the verge of reading my obituary many times” | Culture

Appointment at his office, the Live Nation headquarters in Madrid, a very white and open space in an attic on Gran Vía, among enormous posters of tours of legendary bands, from Freddie Mercury to Coldplay, passing through Rosalía, and employees absorbed in their screens drinking little mouthfuls of water from the corporate aluminum canteen. All very cute, modern and sustainable. In such an environment, Sagliocco’s image stands out by contrast: tall, big, figurehead profile, hat, scarf and jacket of an old rocker who has alternated with the greatest; from Mick Jagger to Paul McCartney or Michael Jackson through Madonna and Camarón de la Isla. He is impressive, and he knows it. Even so, he asks for advice, flirtatious, on how to pose with “roll” in the photo, as if he were not perfectly aware that he is wearing the roll. The boss has more shells than a turtle and more boards than a tablao. And yet, look into its eyes and, in the background, you can see clouds and clearings, like those of every living creature. He doesn’t hide them either.

What is an ‘olé’ in a tablao?

In flamenco, an olé is an exclamation of the soul, a duende that comes from within, pierces your heart and says: what well-being, what wonder, what emotion: olé

And an ‘oh yeah’ at a blues concert?

Well, it’s almost the same. Flamenco is rhythm, like blues, and cante jondo, like blues, reaches your insides because it comes from them. That’s why, you see a dancer like Belén López, and you hear a singer like Estrella Morente and a singer like Chanel Haynes and tears come to your eyes, your hair stands on end and they, even though they don’t even know how to say hello, Because some do not speak English and the other does not speak Spanish, they understand each other wonderfully because they speak the same language, the universal language of music and art.

Is flamenco profitable? Why are you starting to produce it at this point?

For money I already tell you no. Never, not even in my most splendid time with Camarón, did I make money with flamenco, because what I bet on it, I put back into the same thing. The maximum expression of the deepest flamenco is the gypsies, and the gypsies have a great start, but they have forgotten that it is a long-distance race, that you have to keep up with time and have discipline, something that payos like Paco de Lucía did understand. , Antonio Gades, Antonio the Dancer or Sara Baras.

That’s a bit politically incorrect.

At all. They have duende, a unique and unrepeatable art. That tearing off and breaking everything that poisons you. You were saying why am I getting into this? Many times I also wonder why I get so into it that it costs me my health, but I think flamenco deserves it. I thought I wouldn’t produce it again, but here I am again. Flamenco is my poison and my responsibility. It cannot be that such a great art is still unknown in the entire world, because there have also been wrong clichés.

And an Italian has to come and tell us.

Well, I’m Spanish. I am not here the Messiah who is opening paths. But many times at home you don’t appreciate what you have until they tell you outside. That happens in the best families. Many times, the father sees a son as a black sheep and, in the end, the son becomes the whitest sheep in the family.

It sounds like you’re talking about yourself.

Well, when I was little I was a Martian in my town, Carinaro, in the south of Italy. Son of a farmer, in a poor, poor, poor family. Nobody understood where it had come from. Everyone in my family had been farmers and the highest you could reach was to be a bricklayer in Milan, or in Germany, there was no other. And I had something else on my mind.

That?

Birds. You’ll understand it quickly. I have a photograph (he searches for it and shows on his mobile a black and white family photo of a father, mother and four very formal children, where he stands out, a boy of about 12 years old, sprawled, with an open shirt and sunglasses) . My father didn’t understand it: he was like a patron father, the one who protected me was my grandfather. I was clear that I didn’t belong there. I quarreled with my father and left home early. I was a bricklayer, bartender, waiter. I was working in everything, for food, in the markets. I wanted to show my father and the whole town that I was not how he saw me and that he could be proud of me. In demonstrating that respect is earned with actions, not words. In life you don’t have to talk so much and do more.

How did your luck change?

I traveled throughout Europe and arrived in Barcelona in 1978. It was a black and white Spain, but Barcelona was technicolor. I set up the La Pulga musical cooperative and started organizing events. I saw that there was a gap in the music scene, I put a lot of passion into it, a lot of effort, I began to bring artists and contribute my grain of sand to what music is today in Spain.

The rest is in the newspaper archive, but did his father get to see his success?

Yes, and my mother. I took care of all of them with great pride, I brought them seasonally to my house in Ibiza and he drooled over me, and I drooled over them. And in my town I became a national hero.

They will have put a street in it.

I haven’t loved her. I don’t want tributes, because when they start paying tributes to you it’s because you’re dying. And the tributes, better in life.

You will have given yours too. Tributes, I say.

The greatest tribute of my life is having been able to enjoy it to the fullest, in success and in failure, which is what helps you maintain the vision of reality and allows you to clean up your surroundings: in success all are applause, But failure is where you realize who your traveling companions really are.

Willyam Payne has been the penultimate ‘victim’ of the “sex, drugs, rock and roll” mantra taken to the extreme. Do you think there is something common in them?

Yes: family breakdown. Drugs are the consequence, a way to find a way to protect yourself. The final path, sometimes to nowhere. Success can be a suicidal poison if you don’t manage to surround yourself with true companions who help you respect yourself, love yourself, guide you so you don’t lose your way and let things go wrong. It is very difficult to have an audience every night that tells you that you are God and in your bedroom to be alone and without a solid structure.

Have you seen any cases of self-destruction live?

Yes, I have worked with Amy Winehouse and I have seen that sadness, that destructuring, that torment in her eyes. When her grandmother died, I think she lost the last reference she had that guided her and protected her from bad company, the broken family, and the toxic love that got her into the world of drugs and ended her life.

He appears to have X-rays in his eyes.

Yes, I think I have that ability, that gift of seeing the abyss of others. And I have seen it so many times that I think that for me I have been able to understand where there is a red line that should not be crossed, because, when you cross it, you can hardly go back, because you are sunk and you have gotten into the most absolute misery.

Have you frequented that line?

A lot. I have been on that red line for a long time, many years, because my passion also took me to a level of living the needs of creation, of belonging to the community, of being inside. But I have always maintained that sanity of a good family structure that always kept me on the verge of saying: ‘we have come this far, go back, calm down.’ And stop in time.

Out of fear?

No, not out of fear. By conscience. The consequences would lead me to an outcome that nullified what I have done with my life, it would have been a great disappointment with my family, with my people, with my principles. I have been able to read my obituary many times, but when it happened, at night, I told God, if I get out of this, I swear I will change. My wife and children, now, are not very happy with seeing me with so much stress, I could have a heart attack tomorrow, but not because I have crossed that red line.

Are you a believer?

I don’t believe in God in the Catholic sense of the term, although my mother never missed mass a single day in her life, but I believe in the spiritual connection with yourself, believing in something beyond. We need to get hooked on something else to survive.

You, who know so many, what do musical geniuses have in common?

The torment. Everyone always has an inner torment that leads them to search for the pearl of their creation. And its power is to excite, to provoke storms in others. The greatest artist enters such a deep path of creation that the beauty of his work transcends any barrier of any heart to emotion.

I imagine they will suck up to you, but what does it take to get a ticket to a concert?

A smile. I have never, ever, flaunted my power. If I have been able to help someone by giving them a ticket because they cannot afford to buy it, I have done it. And many times, being outside the auditorium, I have seen a desperate fan, I have made him come in with my security and he has found a place for him to watch the show, because I know that this guy is going to go home with brutal happiness and That fills my heart with tenderness. The beautiful things that remain in your soul are those that overwhelm you and give meaning to life.

What is luxury for you?

Being in my house in Ibiza, which is a refuge where I enjoy life. Have some spaghetti with a glass of red wine and be free all day, walk, swim in the sea and see my children grow as they are growing, healthy and happy. I feel like a man tremendously rich in experience, but I have never, ever worked or fought for money in my life. Money is the consequence of doing things well. Money corrupts everyone, it is the biggest corrupter on the planet. I have seen many corrupt people get rich at the expense of others and in the end it is just human misery. Money doesn’t bring any happiness. I have seen extremely rich people who are the poorest on the planet, and vice versa.

A beautiful phrase, but for that a minimum is needed.

Of course. Everyone should have the right to eat and have a roof over their heads. The opposite is a humiliation and an injustice that should not be allowed in Ibiza or anywhere on the planet.