The director of Rockdelux, emblem of the alternative music press, he associates his first musical memories with Los 40 Principales, the epitome of commerciality. “Well, like every teenager, I started listening to the radio formula,” explains Santi Carrillo (Barcelona, 61 years old), responsible for the publication in the 37 years of the 40 years of life of the influential magazine. Rockdelux celebrates these four decades with a special paper choosing the 200 personalities who for them have marked culture (especially music) since 1984, when its first issue was published. In May 2020, during the pandemic, Rockdelux It closed on paper, and seven months later it reappeared digitally, with the paid subscription formula. It is still there, also publishing two paper issues annually.
After revealing his first move towards commercial radio, Carrillo leaves things in their place by remembering the day his musical taste took the path he still continues on: “It was 1980 and he was about 17 years old. I went to a concert in Barcelona organized by the PSUC with a poster with Mike Oldfield and the Ramones. I went to see Mike Oldfield because I didn’t know the Ramones. But when I saw the Ramones concert my perspective on music changed and I discovered that perhaps what I liked was not the most general thing, and I focused my tastes on more sophisticated things.”
Ask. And it all started with the first cover of Rockdelux, where AC/DC and Scorpions appeared.
Answer. (Laughs) The first number was an indigestible amalgam where heavy music was mixed with Boy George, Alaska and David Bowie. All in an unprecedented photographic puzzle. Because at the beginning Rockdelux It was a strange hybrid: it mixed rock, modernity and then a heavy content. He wanted to reach a diverse audience, but he didn’t succeed, because you’re not going to sell Alaska to a heavy metal, and vice versa.
P. The paper version of Rockdelux disappeared during the pandemic. If it weren’t for the covid crisis, would the magazine still be on paper today?
R. It probably would have closed, but not in such a short term. It was already a fight against the elements, because there was a succession of linked crises: the economic crisis in general; that of the kiosk, because there were fewer and fewer points of sale; that of record companies, which already had less economic power to advertise, and the loss of the habit of reading on paper. The pandemic told us that it was better to leave it on time, and close without debt.
P. Why did it close Rockdelux and not other music magazines like Popular 1Ruta 66 o La Heavy, that they still continue?
R. What I sense is that the costs are not the same for these magazines as they are for us. I’m talking about infrastructure, editorial and collaborators, whom we pay, and I don’t know if this is the case in other cases. I think that these titles that you mention, which I deeply respect, I see more as family businesses and they are made by very few people. This model is not comparable to Rockdeluxwhich is more expensive to maintain.
We are not against commercialism, but it is evidence that the most interesting things, at least in their origin, are in the ‘underground’.
P. Of the 200 artists you’ve selected for your 40th anniversary issue, are you able to pick the three most important ones?
R. I prefer to cite those to whom we have dedicated a double page. Three film directors: David Lynch, Pedro Almodóvar and Quentin Tarantino. A writer, Roberto Bolaño. A comic book creator, Chris Ware. And 15 musicians: PJ Harvey, Madonna, Beyoncé, Björk, Nick Cave, Thom Yorke, Prince, Chuck D, Kendrick Lamar, Kanye West, Kurt Cobain, Kim Gordon, Aphex Twin, and the Spanish Jota, from Los Planetas, and Rosalía .
P. Rockdelux He supported Rosalía from the beginning, even dedicating a cover to her four months before publishing The evil will (2018). Does she listen to them now, does she grant them interviews?
R. No. Rosalía no longer needs us, she is on another level, in the stars. When they reach that level they don’t consider music magazines of interest to them. They are only interested in fashion publications and large-circulation newspaper supplements that are accompanied by fashion photos. But talk about music, why: music goes directly to its fans, they don’t need the filter of a journalist who questions things. The only thing they want is to have cool photos taken of them and then say four things about what they are thinking of doing.
P. Perhaps we should call Rosalía’s attitude towards Rockdelux ingratitude…
R. Yes, she is a great artist, but also an ungrateful one.
P. What would you question Rosalía, if you could interview her?
R. We could talk about the way he sells himself, the proximity to his fans, this overexposure on his networks to show that he is natural and that he is at the same level as his fans. This is brutal hypocrisy. What she is selling (she and many more artists) is an idealized dream of a great artist who continues to distance herself from her followers, as it could not be otherwise. What bothers me most about artists is the hypocrisy of wanting to be normal or pretend to be normal. They are not normal: they live in a world in which 95% of the population does not live. Rosalía is a great artist and I don’t know to what extent she needs this constant media overexposure.
P. Is your magazine anti-commercial as a rule?
R. No, in fact, we dedicate a lot of space to artists who reach a large audience, like Beyoncé or Madonna. We are not against commercialism, but it is evidence that the most interesting things, at least in their origin, are in the underground; Then, of course, they can explode and reach many people. But things that go directly to commercial matters are, in principle, suspicious. The logical thing is that there is a path that begins in the hidden, in the alternative. And that is where we have focused the most. We have not stopped talking about commercial matters, but always with artists who continue to lose their identity originating from their minority beginnings.
Vetusta Morla has generated a series of extremely mediocre groups. All that insufferable pseudo indie: Supersubmarina, Viva Sweden, Arde Bogotá, Izal…
P. Tell me what has been the great success of Rockdelux and the big mistake.
R. Although our roots were rock (Lou Reed, Bowie, Patti Smith…) the great success has been to open ourselves to many styles when it was not common in rock or pop magazines. We dedicated a cover in 1987 to hip hop, we talked about flamenco, electronic music when no one was talking about this genre. It was our way of seeing music. And blunders, I remember a review of a Prince album, Parade, that I laughed at him, and it was absurd of me. We have made nonsense at the level of comments many times. Another mistake was not making Los Planetas winners in the 1993 contest. They came second. A group of hip hop, Eat Meat, from Barcelona, which is good, but Los Planetas should have won.
P. Do you consider it a mistake to have put J Balvin on the cover, which was the least sold issue of Rockdelux?
R. Over time maybe yes, because J Balvin’s career has been decreasing, and Bad Bunny’s, for example, has gone up. Although for me, if we talk about reggaeton, the one I like is the precursor, Tego Calderón. But at that time J Balvin helped us present a change of consciousness in consumer music, which was the explosion of Latin music.
P. Is digital publishing profitable? Rockdelux?
R. It is not profitable. It is not in the newspapers, how is it going to be in a magazine as specific as ours. We remain, and I say it proudly, under the umbrella of Primavera Sound. They give us complete freedom to do what we want. They don’t mess with our line, they give us carte blanche to write whatever we consider. It is like a patron who protects us so we can continue.
P. I present two arguments of those who are critical of Rockdelux: which is a pretentious and boring post.
R. (Laughs) We love being seen like that, even if it’s not true. What is certain is that we are closer to or any cultural supplement of a good newspaper or music publications. Forgive me if I offend, but I read some simple and silly things in some music magazines that freak me out.
P. Have they never published simplicity and nonsense in Rockdelux?
R. Maybe so, but we try to avoid them. At least we have the intention, then I don’t know if we achieve it.
P. I am going to mention some quite unquestionable names of Spanish pop and rock that have not had much coverage in their publication. Robe Iniesta, for example.
R. All I can say about him is praise, but it is true that we have not highlighted him much, also because he does not allow himself to be interviewed easily. And maybe because of the urban rock thing, which we haven’t worked on much. But we praised the last album through the roof, a stratospheric review.
“I am amazed at the degree of perversion that has been reached with the Taylor Swift phenomenon.”
P. Old Morla?
R. I appreciate them very much. They have set out on their own path of self-publishing, marking a terrain foreign to the rest. They have good musical taste, too. But for me there is a problem, and that is that Vetusta Morla have generated a series of extremely mediocre groups. All that insufferable pseudo indie. They are responsible in a certain way because they have set an itinerary that the others, much worse than them, have followed exactly. I’m talking about Supersubmarina, Viva Sweden, Arde Bogotá, Izal… They are horrible, straight up.
P. What do you think of Taylor Swift?
R. The great mystery of humanity. I freak out at the degree of perversion that has been reached with the Taylor Swift phenomenon, idolizing her in a way that is beyond any logic. I like some album, like Folklore, but, in general, I see her as an artist mainstream, who now does country, now R&B, now danceable pop… I don’t see that he has achieved anything memorable. There are better singers than her, of course.
Young people are not interested in anything that does not appear on TikTok, YouTube or Instagram. We are lost there, there is nothing to do. “I see it as irrecoverable.”
P. You contradict yourself, because you point out that they also deal with commercial matters, but now you say that Taylor Swift is a commercial artist and that is why it doesn’t satisfy you.
R. In general, if we had to choose, we prefer the alternative. But we do not renounce the commercial, but perhaps not as a generic and clichéd label: that sound, those voices, that strengthening to make it impact, without emotion.
P. Some Spanish groups say that Rockdelux They were entertained when they sold four copies and then when they were in a more favorable position they no longer paid attention to them.
R. Well, that’s debatable. That was the tactic of the British press, NME y Melody Maker, but we don’t. Maybe we don’t pay attention to them because they are worse even though they reach a larger audience.
P. What happens to traditional media with young people, that they fail to attract them?
R. Young people are not interested in anything that does not appear on TikTok, YouTube or Instagram. We are lost there, there is nothing to do. I see it as irrecoverable. The concept of press, journalist, magazines… is very foreign to them. They are in another world, I’m not saying worse, but totally contrary to the one we formed. Maybe when they are 30 they will be interested, but it is a vague hope…
P. Finally, mention the album that you have listened to the most times and an artist that you deeply respected and that has disappointed you.
R. Albums most listened to (tie, impossible one): Let England Shake (PJ Harvey), My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy (Kanye West), What’s Going On (Marvin Gaye), The Queen Is Dead (The Smiths), Darkness On The Edge of Town (Bruce Springsteen), Young Americans (David Bowie), Berlin (Lou Reed) y It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back (Public Enemy). And an artist I respected and now don’t: Kanye West.